Military history: National / North America / United States Template‑class | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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United States Template‑class | |||||||
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Should we include a link to State Defense Force in this navbox? Comments? Thoughts? Streltzer (talk) 00:18, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
(unindent)
I think we're both getting to "attached" here and let's not let our differing opinions get ahead of ourselves. I'm on you're side here. :-) I want to help make this template better as much as you do, not hurt it.
You are incorrect in one thing though. Tile 32, specifically,32 U.S.C. § 101, does provide a distinction between the National Guard and the National Guard of the United States. Members or units in the National Guard of the United States are federally recognized changing their status from militia to reserve military. The President does not need to receive the consent of their respective state governor to be activated just like regular reserves because consent is already given when the member or unit received its recognition. You are correct that the National Guard is both state and federal but only because the National Guard of the United States receives its troops from the state National Guard. While it "seems" that the federal government has control over the National Guard, it is in fact not true. Title 10 limits the President's power over the National Guard establishing the separation of power between the President and state governors over nonfederalized state National Guard. If Guard members or units of the National Guard (state National Guard) are not part of the National Guard of the United States, the President must seek the consent of the respective governor before activation. The government has the right to refuse this if he or she deems necessary. This is reaffirmed in the Insurrection Act, specifically, Pub.L. 110-181 or the National Defense Authorization Act 2008. Also the Militia Act of 1903 does establish the National Guard Bureau but for the management of federalized National Guards not nonferderalized guardsmen. However 10 U.S.C. § 10501 does establish a channel of communication for nonfederalized National Guard to the Department of Defense. So in the aspect that the difference appear minute, it definitely establish a separation. Now to your point, because of the way the law is written, I do not consider the State Defense Force as part of the United States military. They can not even be called in times of war by the government to help with standing invasion. For example, if a neighboring state is being invaded, the governor can refuse to send State Defense Force unit(s) to aid the invading state if so choose. Neovu79 (talk) 05:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
P.S. I didn't leave a response in Template talk:NGbystate because I didn't disagree with you. :-) Neovu79 (talk) 05:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
As a practical consideration, having a piped link point to a redirect to help distinguish a name is pointless. This is a navigational template, its purpose is to help users navigate between related articles, not establish the fine minutae between the versions of the national guard. Most users wouldn't notice anyway. It is also discouraged per editing guidelines, see the "exceptions" section. bahamut0013♠♣ 13:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Why does the link for 'uniforms' in this template, link to the article Military uniform and not to Uniforms of the United States Military. A covering article for the Uniforms of the United States Army, Uniforms of the United States Marine Corps, Uniforms of the United States Navy, Uniforms of the United States Air Force and Uniforms of the United States Coast Guard pages. Mr Taz (talk) 15:30, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
In the edit summary for this revision, I misspoke. I mean to say "service department" instead of "branch". bahamut0013wordsdeeds 21:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
The naval militia is a federally recognized reserve component made up of Navy and Marine Corps reservists who, like the National Guard, serve a dual state and federal mission. It is essentially the Navy version of the National Guard. Given its nature as a federally armed and equipped reserve component of the U.S. forces, I believe it belongs in this template. I wanted to make sure nobody could think of any reasons not to include it before adding it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Et0048 (talk • contribs) 21:32, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
I changed the state from autocollapse to collapsed as the navbox is an entire screen-length in size. Having been reverted by User:BilCat, I'm starting a discussion on the talk page. BilCat, why would we want to have the template expanded by default when it takes up the entire screen? 207.161.217.209 (talk) 03:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I looked at several articles, and they all had more than one navbox, so it displayed collapsed.
Second, your first edits broke the Show/hide toggle.
Third, the include tags are misplaced, and may be causing other problems.
Finally, some people, including myself like to have the navbox autocollapsed, as it displays uncollapsed on the template page. Since that's really a preference issue, you need several people to agree to changing the status quo.
I found the article United States military divers and I was wondering if it should be included in the template.*Trekker (talk) 16:34, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
These are uniformed services and not armed services, so I propose they be removed from the navboxGaruda28 (talk) 22:50, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello! I have noticed that the majority of templates use the "Template:Military of XXXXX". Would this be a preferred option in order to organize templates by country? The whole method of categorizing national military templates right now is unorganized. Russia is "Template:Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", the United Kingdom is "Template:British Armed Forces" (similar to this template). Just an idea. ----ZiaLater (talk) 06:23, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
The only place I can find the "United States Armed Forces" defined in Code is in the Nevada Administrative Code: https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/nevada/NAC-686A-4915 says they are "all components of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard" effective 1 September 2007. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
(click to talk to me) 07:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC) I tend to think the reasons for there not being a "common legal name" or whatever lie more in the Constitution than USC (Title 10 or otherwise). Professional literature tends to focus on the branches, and DOD only enters the picture after World War II. The proposed "armed forces of the United States" makes the most sense in light of this. Intothatdarkness 15:29, 4 January 2024 (UTC) ETA Title 10 (101 Definitions) specifically refers to the Armed Forces as "(4) The term "armed forces" means the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force, and Coast Guard.(5) The term "uniformed services" means—(A) the armed forces; (B) the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; and (C) the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service." This means under the code governing the US military writ large Armed Forces would be the preferred title for much of what we do here, and Armed Forces of the United States is a logical modification. Intothatdarkness 15:35, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
Keep as-is. I believe this template should remain named United States Armed Forces. There is no dispute that these six services are the armed forces, and I believe it is appropriate that these six be the scope of this template. The only other acceptable form would be Armed Forces of the United States, with varying capitalization, but after looking at many other countries' titles on English Wikipedia, it appears the standard format is "(Demonym/Noun) Armed Forces" (French, Mexican, Canadian, British, Indian, etc) without needing specific legal meaning of that term. Therefore, it's not wrong to refer to it as United States Armed Forces and is stylistically consistent. ~PescoSo say•we all 21:16, 8 January 2024 (UTC)